It takes 200,000 costly mistakes made by you in business, many of which will be funny, frustrating, and even embarrassing. But there is no getting around that number, so you might as well get them over with as soon and as fast as possible if you want to be a millionare.
I am sure that the willingness to make mistakes is important, but even better would be someone who plays the role of a 'language parent' for you, offering encouragement, support and understanding by stating what you probably wanted to say correctly.
I do not remember where I found this mentioned, but it resonated deeply with me, because I recalled that when I (a German) was in England the first time a young lady from Australia who stayed at the same B&B did exactly this for me. (Of course I did not fully appreciate what she was doing, and probably did not even thank her.)
FLTeacher here. Yep, a highly useful framing, no matter how exact the numbers; will tell my next class. If I ever pass through Provo, I shall ask to attend. 2 things: as I often wrote: putting the first 500 FL-lessons in one time-slot (2-3 months is fine) is vastly more efficient than spreading them thinly over several years of high-school. At same costs. - And, though I am sure the instructors in Utah do 'teach in the target language', I am kinda glad there is no claim of the learners first language being anathema.
Can you say a little more about your second point? Are you skeptical of the "language immersion" approach? That would be interesting to hear more about. Thanks!
Sure, it is just a very minor disagreement with Dr. Caplan's repeated demand: "Not a word of English allowed in the Spanish courses of my kids" (part of his home-schooling). The "Berlitz approach"/ direct method/ "immersion" is indeed much, much better than any Spanish-"classes" that turn out to be: 'We talk in English about language and culture of Latin America' (plus learn to read aloud - no understanding required). I witnessed such (German) courses in Russia, less bad in London and heard US-schools are failing, too. (I did see some US course books pretending to 'teach' German. )
Nevertheless, the complete ban of the learner's first language seems over-done. In my corner of the world, it was mainly Prof. Dr. Wolfgang Butzkamm who changed the mainstream view from a dogmatic version of the "direct method" to "aufgeklärte Einsprachigkeit" (enlightened/informed/functional monolingualism). In 1973. Wikipedia has an English entry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Butzkamm I wish to add: a) This is still very much "direct method" (as is the "communicative approach" - as is "immersion"). b) Quote (source forgotten): 'The proponents of (radical) "immersion" never talk about those students who drowned.' (And in a standard school class, some do.) - p.s. Nabokov's "Pnin" (1957) is a fun(?) novel/satire (also) about college-FLT in USofA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pnin
Thanks! I've had foreign language classes like the ones you describe where it's almost all in English, and I agree you get nothing out of it. But I also take your point that the complete ban could be counterproductive.
Having spent three years of my childhood in Pomona back in the 1970s, I can attest to the fact that not only is learning from one's mistakes a good idea, it is also a matter of life and death (especially for a member of the white, English-speaking minority in a city where the local branches of the Mexican Mafia were battling the Crips and the Bloods over turf every night and recruiting new members directly from the elementary school playgrounds to replace their dead comrades) for one not to put on condescending airs of mistake-free perfection that make _other_ people feel uncomfortable and disrespected. If one dared run their mouth as the typical supercilious, sanctimonious white "progressive" apparatchik does, one wouldn't last five minutes without a police escort.
I like to read out loud to improve my pronunciation in a foreign language. That way I can concentrate on the pronunciation and not worry about finding the right word and constructing a proper sentence
I also like to look at people mouths to imitate their mouth movements.
Having learnt 4 foreign languages myself, I concur. A bit of a tangent: it makes learning Chinese and Japanese even harder. (I say "even harder" because they are already extremely difficult to learn due to their extreme foreignness from Indio-European languages). When I was learning English and French, I found native speakers willing to help me out and point out mistakes. When you are learning Chinese or Japanese and are using it with a native speaker, you know you make mistakes, but you don't know which they are, because your interlocutor will not point it out, unless it's specifically an instructional context. I figure it's impolite to point out someone else's mistake in those cultures, but it makes language learning doubly or triply frustrating.
I made a similar observation while learning Japanese (and then Chinese) many years ago. You will need to open the dictionary 100,000 times. It doesn't matter how many hours you study, and fancy technology helps only because it speeds up the time it takes to open the dictionary.
I learned to speak Spanish by speaking a lot, but badly.
I write spiritual humor, which is oddly easier to translate into other languages than wordplay.
I translate all of my writing to Spanish, for the benefit of my spanish-speaking acquaintances and friends, with the help of a native speaker . And with the help of Google translate of course.
I can confirm that a similar principle of “make 200000 mistakes” exists in learning any form of art.
“Walt Stanchfield — 'We all have 10000 bad drawings in us. The sooner we get them out the better.'”
ohhhh, maybe I should try sketching again!
It takes 200,000 costly mistakes made by you in business, many of which will be funny, frustrating, and even embarrassing. But there is no getting around that number, so you might as well get them over with as soon and as fast as possible if you want to be a millionare.
In any endeavour.
I am sure that the willingness to make mistakes is important, but even better would be someone who plays the role of a 'language parent' for you, offering encouragement, support and understanding by stating what you probably wanted to say correctly.
I do not remember where I found this mentioned, but it resonated deeply with me, because I recalled that when I (a German) was in England the first time a young lady from Australia who stayed at the same B&B did exactly this for me. (Of course I did not fully appreciate what she was doing, and probably did not even thank her.)
FLTeacher here. Yep, a highly useful framing, no matter how exact the numbers; will tell my next class. If I ever pass through Provo, I shall ask to attend. 2 things: as I often wrote: putting the first 500 FL-lessons in one time-slot (2-3 months is fine) is vastly more efficient than spreading them thinly over several years of high-school. At same costs. - And, though I am sure the instructors in Utah do 'teach in the target language', I am kinda glad there is no claim of the learners first language being anathema.
Can you say a little more about your second point? Are you skeptical of the "language immersion" approach? That would be interesting to hear more about. Thanks!
Sure, it is just a very minor disagreement with Dr. Caplan's repeated demand: "Not a word of English allowed in the Spanish courses of my kids" (part of his home-schooling). The "Berlitz approach"/ direct method/ "immersion" is indeed much, much better than any Spanish-"classes" that turn out to be: 'We talk in English about language and culture of Latin America' (plus learn to read aloud - no understanding required). I witnessed such (German) courses in Russia, less bad in London and heard US-schools are failing, too. (I did see some US course books pretending to 'teach' German. )
Nevertheless, the complete ban of the learner's first language seems over-done. In my corner of the world, it was mainly Prof. Dr. Wolfgang Butzkamm who changed the mainstream view from a dogmatic version of the "direct method" to "aufgeklärte Einsprachigkeit" (enlightened/informed/functional monolingualism). In 1973. Wikipedia has an English entry https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Butzkamm I wish to add: a) This is still very much "direct method" (as is the "communicative approach" - as is "immersion"). b) Quote (source forgotten): 'The proponents of (radical) "immersion" never talk about those students who drowned.' (And in a standard school class, some do.) - p.s. Nabokov's "Pnin" (1957) is a fun(?) novel/satire (also) about college-FLT in USofA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pnin
Thanks! I've had foreign language classes like the ones you describe where it's almost all in English, and I agree you get nothing out of it. But I also take your point that the complete ban could be counterproductive.
Having spent three years of my childhood in Pomona back in the 1970s, I can attest to the fact that not only is learning from one's mistakes a good idea, it is also a matter of life and death (especially for a member of the white, English-speaking minority in a city where the local branches of the Mexican Mafia were battling the Crips and the Bloods over turf every night and recruiting new members directly from the elementary school playgrounds to replace their dead comrades) for one not to put on condescending airs of mistake-free perfection that make _other_ people feel uncomfortable and disrespected. If one dared run their mouth as the typical supercilious, sanctimonious white "progressive" apparatchik does, one wouldn't last five minutes without a police escort.
I like to read out loud to improve my pronunciation in a foreign language. That way I can concentrate on the pronunciation and not worry about finding the right word and constructing a proper sentence
I also like to look at people mouths to imitate their mouth movements.
Having learnt 4 foreign languages myself, I concur. A bit of a tangent: it makes learning Chinese and Japanese even harder. (I say "even harder" because they are already extremely difficult to learn due to their extreme foreignness from Indio-European languages). When I was learning English and French, I found native speakers willing to help me out and point out mistakes. When you are learning Chinese or Japanese and are using it with a native speaker, you know you make mistakes, but you don't know which they are, because your interlocutor will not point it out, unless it's specifically an instructional context. I figure it's impolite to point out someone else's mistake in those cultures, but it makes language learning doubly or triply frustrating.
There's a well-known saying among go players to "lose your first 50 games as quickly as possible" https://senseis.xmp.net/?LoseYourFirst50GamesAsQuicklyAsPossible
I made a similar observation while learning Japanese (and then Chinese) many years ago. You will need to open the dictionary 100,000 times. It doesn't matter how many hours you study, and fancy technology helps only because it speeds up the time it takes to open the dictionary.
I learned to speak Spanish by speaking a lot, but badly.
I write spiritual humor, which is oddly easier to translate into other languages than wordplay.
I translate all of my writing to Spanish, for the benefit of my spanish-speaking acquaintances and friends, with the help of a native speaker . And with the help of Google translate of course.