Did Moskos examine Singapore, where flogging is essentially an official punishment?
I think one of the main benefits of flogging is that it's visible and easy to understand. A big part of deterrence is convincing criminals that they will be caught and punished with high % likelihood, public floggings work to convince them of this. It would also lower the cultural allure of criminality (they would see their community cheer on the punishment).
It will never work in the USA because it would basically amount of the state whipping blacks in public, not exactly the kind of thing that would fly in 2023.
the criminal is rereleased onto the street immediately
most criminals are not logicians doing cost benefit analyses on whether to commit a crime, it's mostly impulse and I don't know how much the potential future risk of flogging will prevent further crime
I’m not worried about it being too mild. In fact, I think many people who responded to your polls underestimate how bad floggings is. Many people thought that 25+ floggings were equivalent to a single year in prison. Singapore uses floggings for some crimes and their maximum is 24. I assume that Singapore has a better understanding of the severity than we do, since they are actively using it.
Isn't the real benefit to society from long-ish prison sentences that the criminals are out of circulation for an extended period, and thus can't commit more crimes? (note I'm not saying that our prison systems aren't awful places that need to be reformed). My uneducated guess is that a punishment, however brutal, that could be recovered from in a month wouldn't end up being much of a deterrent.
It probably depends on the person. For the mentally ill likely only incarceration works. But for a lot of dumb young males a good public beating might be enough.
I'm sorry to leave this here because it's not relevant. However, I wanted to point you to the recent Making Sense episode summarising Free Will. I don't understand where you stand on the issue. I pay him, so I can send you the full episode if you tell me how.
I liked this and want more. This short reviews made me super-curious to read the books.
OTOH: This short reviews made me super-curious to read the books, but in all likelihood, I won't. Any.
So, my preference are super-long book-reviews (think ACX) - then I will know 90+% of what I'd got from the book, if I'd actually read it. I sometimes did after one loooong - or many shorter - reviews - as in "Selfish Reasons" or "Seeing Like a State" - so that is my experience for non-fiction. I will not buy Tyler's "Talent", for sure. - Writings books is for fame, substack for the money. ;)
Thanks, one-paragraph reviews are a great idea! I read Smith's "The Russians" many years ago and found it enlightening. I can't wait to read this new version.
This was both a treat and vindication. For a dozen years I've been posting short reviews of the books I read on Facebook. Just passed 500 books. Many reviews are one paragraph, others would be one paragraph if I had not inserted a paragraph break so they wouldn't look too short.
"It really isn’t that hard to imagine an alternate scenario where “Hispanic” identity never got off the ground."
Once Hispanics became a big enough % of the population to have political muscle I think it became inevitable.
White Ethnics kind of had an informal racial spoils system. All those Irish Cops, etc. Part of the reason liberals were OK with the dysfunction of the 70s and school busing is that the blacks drove the white ethnics out of the cities into the burbs and broke that power base.
"I’ve become hyper-aware of how hard it is to physically distinguish most Hispanics from darker-skinned whites"
It's hard to distinguish Italians or Spanish from White Hispanics...because White Hispanics have a lot of Mediterranean DNA in them. They are essentially white.
The problem really is how much non-European DNA you need to be considered "Hispanic". In a world where nobody is checking and there are advantageous to claiming it, not much. But it is a bit degrading, and occasionally you get a gut check when a Hispanic has a negative interaction with a Black (all of a sudden they are a "white hispanic").
In a lot of ways White Hispanics are the easiest group to integrate into white norms. Dark Hispanics seem to track closer to blacks though.
This is, possibly, the best format of book reviewing. Thanks.
^^^This is the correct opinion.
I appreciate this method of reviews. Are you planning on polling regarding which micro-reviews people would like longer reviews on?
Did Moskos examine Singapore, where flogging is essentially an official punishment?
I think one of the main benefits of flogging is that it's visible and easy to understand. A big part of deterrence is convincing criminals that they will be caught and punished with high % likelihood, public floggings work to convince them of this. It would also lower the cultural allure of criminality (they would see their community cheer on the punishment).
It will never work in the USA because it would basically amount of the state whipping blacks in public, not exactly the kind of thing that would fly in 2023.
the issue with flogging is no incapacitation
the criminal is rereleased onto the street immediately
most criminals are not logicians doing cost benefit analyses on whether to commit a crime, it's mostly impulse and I don't know how much the potential future risk of flogging will prevent further crime
Best article
Thank you for this.
Could you make it so people could choose flogging or prison?
That's what Moskos wants. Of course, if you're worried about punishment being too mild, this is a little worrying.
I’m not worried about it being too mild. In fact, I think many people who responded to your polls underestimate how bad floggings is. Many people thought that 25+ floggings were equivalent to a single year in prison. Singapore uses floggings for some crimes and their maximum is 24. I assume that Singapore has a better understanding of the severity than we do, since they are actively using it.
Isn't the real benefit to society from long-ish prison sentences that the criminals are out of circulation for an extended period, and thus can't commit more crimes? (note I'm not saying that our prison systems aren't awful places that need to be reformed). My uneducated guess is that a punishment, however brutal, that could be recovered from in a month wouldn't end up being much of a deterrent.
It probably depends on the person. For the mentally ill likely only incarceration works. But for a lot of dumb young males a good public beating might be enough.
I'm sorry to leave this here because it's not relevant. However, I wanted to point you to the recent Making Sense episode summarising Free Will. I don't understand where you stand on the issue. I pay him, so I can send you the full episode if you tell me how.
I liked this and want more. This short reviews made me super-curious to read the books.
OTOH: This short reviews made me super-curious to read the books, but in all likelihood, I won't. Any.
So, my preference are super-long book-reviews (think ACX) - then I will know 90+% of what I'd got from the book, if I'd actually read it. I sometimes did after one loooong - or many shorter - reviews - as in "Selfish Reasons" or "Seeing Like a State" - so that is my experience for non-fiction. I will not buy Tyler's "Talent", for sure. - Writings books is for fame, substack for the money. ;)
I loved your review of The New Russians. In my opinion, Australians are the New Russians due to Yurchak's hypernormalisation https://vicparkpetition.substack.com/p/hypernormalisation-the-australian
Thanks, one-paragraph reviews are a great idea! I read Smith's "The Russians" many years ago and found it enlightening. I can't wait to read this new version.
This was both a treat and vindication. For a dozen years I've been posting short reviews of the books I read on Facebook. Just passed 500 books. Many reviews are one paragraph, others would be one paragraph if I had not inserted a paragraph break so they wouldn't look too short.
This was fantastic.
Very good format. I think future reviews should be in separate posts, though, so that feedback can be more targeted.
"It really isn’t that hard to imagine an alternate scenario where “Hispanic” identity never got off the ground."
Once Hispanics became a big enough % of the population to have political muscle I think it became inevitable.
White Ethnics kind of had an informal racial spoils system. All those Irish Cops, etc. Part of the reason liberals were OK with the dysfunction of the 70s and school busing is that the blacks drove the white ethnics out of the cities into the burbs and broke that power base.
"I’ve become hyper-aware of how hard it is to physically distinguish most Hispanics from darker-skinned whites"
It's hard to distinguish Italians or Spanish from White Hispanics...because White Hispanics have a lot of Mediterranean DNA in them. They are essentially white.
The problem really is how much non-European DNA you need to be considered "Hispanic". In a world where nobody is checking and there are advantageous to claiming it, not much. But it is a bit degrading, and occasionally you get a gut check when a Hispanic has a negative interaction with a Black (all of a sudden they are a "white hispanic").
In a lot of ways White Hispanics are the easiest group to integrate into white norms. Dark Hispanics seem to track closer to blacks though.
Just enough detail to let me know whether to pursue the book or not, especially since you provide plusses and minuses succinctly. Keep 'em coming!
OK - yes more please.