Nope, just middle class, my late father was a combat vet USAF fighter pilot, studied aeronautical engineering, but no degree because the GI Bill required him to quit college and go to Korea to fly combat missions, 1953. Before WW2 there was one PhD in the family, late 1800s, sociologist, university administrator.
Nope, just middle class, my late father was a combat vet USAF fighter pilot, studied aeronautical engineering, but no degree because the GI Bill required him to quit college and go to Korea to fly combat missions, 1953. Before WW2 there was one PhD in the family, late 1800s, sociologist, university administrator.
Anyways, with real “rich” parents, college is mostly irrelevant for people that have talent, are smart and work hard. Unless they are self-destructive, their access to elite business and professional networks is what matters. They are likely to get $300,000 for their down payment from their family.
If I recall what Dr. Caplan said in his earlier work correctly , college is more of a dating service, quasi arranged marriages for the upper classes, than education.
Apparently that PhD ancestor was, like everybody else back then, instructed in religion and theology. As such he was a prison reformer, in the darkest decades of Jim Crow in the south. Not sure if he actually made any difference. Almost everyone back then personally observed lynchings. Republicans were frequently liberals, especially in the south.
It depends on the major. Electrical Engineering and Computer Science (EECS) at Cal Berkeley is no dating service. Physics at CalTech is no dating service. Communications at Chico State? Mostly a series of keg parties. Any degree at BYU? Combination dating service and academics.
It seems that self-censorship is high at nearly all college campuses no matter the major. Certainly mechanical engineering majors are exposed to much less social justice philosophy than history majors, but it seems hard to escape social justice fundamentalism in general education requirements, dorms, and college culture in general.
Here’s one attempt to understand and quantify the woke problem in higher education: it’s a message I sent to Greg Lukianoff about two months ago based on my reading of FIRE’s Free Speech Rankings report.
———
If Harvard moves from dead last to #1 in FIRE’s overall rankings, this statement on page 13 of your rankings report will likely still be true: “When it comes to students’ comfort expressing their views, the differences between schools in the top five and schools in the bottom five are mostly negligible.”
So in terms of student outcomes, and a student’s day-to-day experience and learning, what improves when a school goes from dead last to #1 in your overall rankings?
Also, it seems like a school’s overall ranking depends too much on the tolerance difference for controversial speakers, and the disruptive conduct associated with such speakers, because most students are not attending controversial speaker events nor being impacted by disruptive conduct in their regular classes. So does this not discount the importance of your overall ranking for prospective students?
Here’s the full excerpt and link for those curious.
“When it comes to students’ comfort expressing their views, the differences between schools in the top five and schools in the bottom five are mostly negligible. The two exceptions are the percentage of students who reported feeling comfortable expressing their views on a controversial political topic in class (43% at the bottom five schools; 39% at the top five schools) and the percentage of students who reported feeling comfortable doing so in a common campus space (50% at the bottom five schools; 44% at the top five schools).”
So, with that in mind, I would say engineering and science majors are still exposed to too much progressive ideology, but what is the next best alternative? Alternatives seem extremely limited.
Burning down (metaphorically speaking) something like 80% of the corrupt, wasteful, bloated admin in higher education is my standard advice.
Robert Kegan, Kurt Fischer and their colleagues at Harvard GSE had some unique ideas about how education should evolve under postmodern social conditions.
Some kind of massive reform is needed.
Use psych evals to block sociopaths and narcissists from being promoted into leadership?
WGU.edu isn't perfect, but at least they realize that in many cases, brick and mortar higher ed does badly in a competition with google search and youtube for many young people who want to learn stuff.
They put emphasis on having students test out on existing competencies instead putting their "butt in a seat" for a whole semester to re-learn what they already know.
STEM majors that are anti-woke could try to use social media to stand up to the woke lunatics, they could support anti-woke organizations such as fairforall.org , they could ask teachers to take anti-woke positions by pointing out the reality of creepy woke types like Clausdine Gay at Harvard. They could threaten to transfer, if possible, to schools that are critical of woke.
Alternatives to college: community college and similar vocational-tech programs. Look for jobs that don't require college. I've been surprised at how many young people that are quick thinkers and good with numbers (and customer support/communication) are successful in finance and banking. I know one such person that is 30, no college, almost 10 years chain restaurant "management", who is almost making $100,000 a year.
In general, Gen XYZ from working and middle class backgrounds seem to be very skeptical that there will be very many good middle class jobs like that in the future.
At the same time, they aren't rushing toward vocational training in construction, machining, plumbing, ag, etc., which is bizarre IMO.
The european model is probably better, testing is done in middle and high school to put students on either a vocational training track or college track. As long as there are merit-based escape hatches for movement from working class to college, that could probably work well.
Legacy higher ed is sucking a lot of oxygen out of the room that needs to go to creating better alternatives.
Nope, just middle class, my late father was a combat vet USAF fighter pilot, studied aeronautical engineering, but no degree because the GI Bill required him to quit college and go to Korea to fly combat missions, 1953. Before WW2 there was one PhD in the family, late 1800s, sociologist, university administrator.
Anyways, with real “rich” parents, college is mostly irrelevant for people that have talent, are smart and work hard. Unless they are self-destructive, their access to elite business and professional networks is what matters. They are likely to get $300,000 for their down payment from their family.
If I recall what Dr. Caplan said in his earlier work correctly , college is more of a dating service, quasi arranged marriages for the upper classes, than education.
Apparently that PhD ancestor was, like everybody else back then, instructed in religion and theology. As such he was a prison reformer, in the darkest decades of Jim Crow in the south. Not sure if he actually made any difference. Almost everyone back then personally observed lynchings. Republicans were frequently liberals, especially in the south.
It depends on the major. Electrical Engineering and Computer Science (EECS) at Cal Berkeley is no dating service. Physics at CalTech is no dating service. Communications at Chico State? Mostly a series of keg parties. Any degree at BYU? Combination dating service and academics.
Right, as is well known. What percentage of students are STEM majors. My guess is 15-20? Take away foreign students and that probably drops a lot.
Of course even STEM is now infected by “woke” mental dysfunction, so the meaning and value of such degrees is presumably in decline.
It seems that self-censorship is high at nearly all college campuses no matter the major. Certainly mechanical engineering majors are exposed to much less social justice philosophy than history majors, but it seems hard to escape social justice fundamentalism in general education requirements, dorms, and college culture in general.
Here’s one attempt to understand and quantify the woke problem in higher education: it’s a message I sent to Greg Lukianoff about two months ago based on my reading of FIRE’s Free Speech Rankings report.
———
If Harvard moves from dead last to #1 in FIRE’s overall rankings, this statement on page 13 of your rankings report will likely still be true: “When it comes to students’ comfort expressing their views, the differences between schools in the top five and schools in the bottom five are mostly negligible.”
So in terms of student outcomes, and a student’s day-to-day experience and learning, what improves when a school goes from dead last to #1 in your overall rankings?
Also, it seems like a school’s overall ranking depends too much on the tolerance difference for controversial speakers, and the disruptive conduct associated with such speakers, because most students are not attending controversial speaker events nor being impacted by disruptive conduct in their regular classes. So does this not discount the importance of your overall ranking for prospective students?
Here’s the full excerpt and link for those curious.
“When it comes to students’ comfort expressing their views, the differences between schools in the top five and schools in the bottom five are mostly negligible. The two exceptions are the percentage of students who reported feeling comfortable expressing their views on a controversial political topic in class (43% at the bottom five schools; 39% at the top five schools) and the percentage of students who reported feeling comfortable doing so in a common campus space (50% at the bottom five schools; 44% at the top five schools).”
https://rankings.thefire.org
——-
So, with that in mind, I would say engineering and science majors are still exposed to too much progressive ideology, but what is the next best alternative? Alternatives seem extremely limited.
Excellent, but I’m not sure what alternatives you are asking about, sorry.
Alternative majors? Alternatives to “woke” ideology? Alternatives to college in general?
This is one of the best sites I’ve found on post-woke culture.
metarationality.com
Burning down (metaphorically speaking) something like 80% of the corrupt, wasteful, bloated admin in higher education is my standard advice.
Robert Kegan, Kurt Fischer and their colleagues at Harvard GSE had some unique ideas about how education should evolve under postmodern social conditions.
Some kind of massive reform is needed.
Use psych evals to block sociopaths and narcissists from being promoted into leadership?
Yes, alternatives for STEM majors.
Yes, alternatives for college in general.
When it comes to college in general, there aren’t many good options now. There are many mediocre options and many bad options.
It’s a disconcerting situation.
So until things get better, people will have to grin and bear it.
WGU.edu isn't perfect, but at least they realize that in many cases, brick and mortar higher ed does badly in a competition with google search and youtube for many young people who want to learn stuff.
They put emphasis on having students test out on existing competencies instead putting their "butt in a seat" for a whole semester to re-learn what they already know.
STEM majors that are anti-woke could try to use social media to stand up to the woke lunatics, they could support anti-woke organizations such as fairforall.org , they could ask teachers to take anti-woke positions by pointing out the reality of creepy woke types like Clausdine Gay at Harvard. They could threaten to transfer, if possible, to schools that are critical of woke.
Alternatives to college: community college and similar vocational-tech programs. Look for jobs that don't require college. I've been surprised at how many young people that are quick thinkers and good with numbers (and customer support/communication) are successful in finance and banking. I know one such person that is 30, no college, almost 10 years chain restaurant "management", who is almost making $100,000 a year.
In general, Gen XYZ from working and middle class backgrounds seem to be very skeptical that there will be very many good middle class jobs like that in the future.
At the same time, they aren't rushing toward vocational training in construction, machining, plumbing, ag, etc., which is bizarre IMO.
The european model is probably better, testing is done in middle and high school to put students on either a vocational training track or college track. As long as there are merit-based escape hatches for movement from working class to college, that could probably work well.
Legacy higher ed is sucking a lot of oxygen out of the room that needs to go to creating better alternatives.
Good brainstorm. We’ll figure it out.
Kaggle et al?