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The basic and crucial political issue of our age is: capitalism versus socialism, or freedom versus statism. For decades, this issue has been silenced, suppressed, evaded, and hidden under the foggy, undefined rubber-terms of “conservatism” and “liberalism” which had lost their original meaning and could be stretched to mean all things to all men.

-Ayn Rand, 1964

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I mean, yeah, during the cold war.

Now it seems to be white cishet married men against people who hate them. If you're some of those things but not all, you'll be pulled in both directions.

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Thanks for sharing the contents of your unfocused mind. Have you considered sharing the contents of your focused mind?

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I'm too mystified to be offended.

Maybe the unfocused is more fun. Do what thou wilt shalt be the whole of the law!

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Weve been trying get high without having to pay.

-sung by classically educated, '60s rocker, Marianne Faithfull

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Aug 23, 2023·edited Aug 23, 2023

Virginia Postrel suggests Dynamism vs Stasis.

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She evades identifying the context. As libertarian, she is superficial in principle. Individual rights, for or against, is the basic rational alternative. Of course, if one is a libertarian subjectivist...

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This isn't a new idea-- which is good, given that new ideas are usually wrong. Edward Banfield talked about this in the context of the debates over the American party system in the mid-1950s. Richard Bensel's book on Gilded Age parties-- I think it is called "The Political Economy of American Industrialism"-- makes a similar point. But it is good to have an entire book that focusses exclusively on this issue, and I will definitely read it now. In theory, recognizing that "left" and "right" refer to coalitions and policy positions that are constantly shifting should lead people to be more tolerant. But it won't, in my opinion, because people are naturally tribal, and enjoy feeling hatred for others.

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'Bad tribalism is what happens when the issues are seen to be really important, and a lot is at stake.' (As close as I can get to a quote). Question for the Lewis's: Don*t political party insiders always think politics is really important (it is most of their life), and that a lot is at stake (to them it is)? Won't that create a huge incentive to reduce the issues to one dimension in order to encourage tribalism? Isn't tribalism in the parties best interests?

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Tribalism is also nice for individuals because we have limited working memory, and simplifying things makes us have to think about less things while making us feel and seem sophistacated and wordly smart

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My personal suspicioun is that what makes someone right wing or left wing isnt ideolagy at all: its a genetic and evolutionary personality, with different priorities, intuitions, and preferences

In as blunt terms as possible: conservatives are evolutionarly farmers, progressives are huntergatherers.

The prefered policies of each side makes no coherent sense, because they are both fighting for social desirability bias, and appealing to each heritages instincts

Farmers on keeping strangers out, adhering to a masculine authority, maxamise own fertility. Typically see hard work as the most important thing, and then to be conformist and normal.

The envirement is there to be exploited and turned into farmland, or human goods.

Hunter gatherers operate on an assumption of the commons, where everyone usually has enough to live prosperous lives, and any poverty has to be explained. Which creates a huge emphasis on economic disparities. They are also hugely on the lookout for anyone trying to snatch a bigger pie and dominate everyone.

Envirement has enough for everyone and is only deficient if you over exploit it

Libertarians are essentially evolutionarly weirdos, altough i think we are right

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I don't have 90 minutes to watch this so I'll sum up.

The Republican base is:

1) Middle class

2) Married vs single/divorced

3) Many kids vs few/none

4) Usually too high income for welfare, but not high income enough that money doesn't matter

5) Generally employed in free market versus government and government adjacent

6) Generally has high income versus education level

6a) GOP vote share maxes out around the associates degree level of education once you control for other factors like race

7) White vs Brown

The more your not like that, the more Democratic you are. Note that you can not be like that because you are both underclass or wealthy (not middle class).

Most of the policies fall out from that.

Does a policy benefit middle class people with big families? Right supports it.

Of course you might feel a policy "doesn't really" benefit some group, but at least in a first order sense it should benefit them.

Also, every party is a coalition of interests, and sometimes one has to "take one for the team" in order to keep the coalition together and get what they want.

Realignments tend to happen when a coalition falls below the level of electoral viability necessary to win elections. But it can take time (sometimes you have long periods of one party rule).

In terms of differences, just look at red states vs blue states. We would all agree red states are way better, and that's how people vote with their feet. The same is true internally (people move out of cities and to the suburbs). This was especially obvious during COVID but is also true on simple things like taxes and regulation.

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> free market

All firms and industries are regulated or owned by govt in the US. Reps have been voting for govt economic intervention since the 1890 Sherman Antitrust Act to a big govt politician named Donald Trump. Reps now evade economic problems for culture wars. Reps stand for nothing. Thats why so many support a human nothing named Donald Trump who stands for nothing except more govt.

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Now do it for Dems. I can't see what the groups that comprise their base have in common, or how almost any of them benefit from the proposed policies. All I see is a common caricature of the right, barely correlated with reality, that they all hate.

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Like I said, the opposite.

The Democratic coalition is more "diverse". You have ghetto blacks and childless HR ladies, and environmental NGOs, etc. It's all over the place.

Steve Sailer would call it the coalition of fringes vs the "core".

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Right. The Republicans are white, middle class, married, fertile people employed in private industry with more money than education. The Democrats are people who are relatively few of those things. IF you have some but not all, you're likely to be a swing voter.

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Your definition of left and right reminds me of the question of what a species is. One def that captures most instances is: a male and a female are in the same species if they can mate and have offspring. But then there are apparently birds that you can track the species going west on the globe and when you get back to where you started you’re at a new species. (Can imagine you start with blue and red birds locally. You tack the blue group going west, it gradually shifts its hue to purple, and by the time you get back to the start you’re at red.)

Going back in time you could imagine the same thing happening with left and right, or at least the parties currently identifying one way might end up on the opposite later.

So perhaps the party stances only cohere locally. Of course your def of left right is static.

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Not a myth. Social status rules. And, where status does not exist (financial wealth is only a weak proxy), tribal status is only equal parts headcount and vigilance. The “enemy of my enemy is my friend” can be refactored to “the friend of my enemy is my enemy” .. this most basic cognitiion is essential to both hunting AND warring parties. Freedom of speech bothers few outside a duopoly yet today, anti-free speech abounds in the US. Right and left (sometimes cheaply seen as tribal cs ideology) is a myth.” Or rather, perhaps It’s a only a lazy, narrative construct. Either way, it’s not fixed thus, it’s easily debunked.

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Hypothesis: most people don't actually treat politics the way Sean Hannity does, but the minority who do produce a hugely disproportionate amount of political commentary, so they seem like a majority.

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Professor Caplan, why do you believe Hitler would have self-identified as being on the right? Sure he hated the communists, but he also hated liberal capitalists, and most traditional conservatives. I remember reading somewhere that in the Gestapo files they actually used the word "reactionary" to identify dissident clergy! Many fascists explicitly describe themselves as advocating a "third position" between capitalism and communism. Hitler probably thought of himself as a centrist!

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Do countries with >2 party systems have less of the partisan tribalism the authors describe?

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Every strand of left wing thought contains egalitarian principles

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RE: The spectrum vs granularity

The problem is our system of elections. If we had something like ranked choice voting or single transferrable vote or etc then we could have granularity of positions. I would like to see US House elections done without districts on a statewide basis with single transferrable vote. In the smallest state it makes no difference. In the largest, its a huge difference.

In CA, you need less than 2% of the statewide vote to get elected to the house. You would get libertarians and greens and communists and etc elected. You would get anti-market, anti-abortion Democrats. You would get pro-market, pro-abortion Republicans. People would have to make ranked choice position votes. And geographic decisions. Would a socal Democrat prefer a socal Republican over a nocal Dem? Maybe, sometimes.

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I can't see modern American politicians doing anything that would reward those who actually want to stick to their principles. They're all swamp creatures who want nothing more than loyalty to the party no matter what, and this would so deeply reduce that as to be unacceptably heretical a cause to adopt.

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With a complicated situation it is easier to assert chaos than find a pattern. Words do not have essential or necessary meanings. The left-right spectrum is not very useful. A political compass can be useful. Left: personal liberty; Right: property liberty; North: libertarian; South: authoritarian. https://jclester.substack.com/p/the-political-compass-and-why-libertarianism

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I think bryan caplan is a tiny bit right on the left being anti market. But i think the real description of left vs right is rather

“The left are anti economic differences, and finds changes and inequality there painful and outrageous”

(Which leads to being anti profit as that generally creates economic differences, and since the market is built around profit, they often turn anti market)

“The right is anti social differences, and often find social changes and disconformity outrageous and painful.”

(This leads to right wing people often being against immigration, or sexual and gender related changes in society)

What we then purport to be the left or right wing ideology is often local politicians or intellectualls trying to satisfy the social desirability bias and tastes of these two different groups.

And since both sides dislikes change and difference but in different ways, and goverment can be very good at stopping change and new things, in practical politics both sides have very similar policies. But vastly different rhetoric.

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Why would you expect a two party system to make sense? There are lots of things for people to care about and even if people actually generally were ideological (they mostly aren't; they are going to have a few proclivities that guide a lot of their positions but then a lot of positions are just going to be decided on an ad hoc basis), you'd still end up with a coalition that isn't going to be bound together by any coherent principle. The democrats aren't the party of antisemitism and jewish people because antisemites and jewish people are beholden to some myth that their interest are aligned or they believe in the same things. Same thing in the past when democrats were the party of jim crow and african americans. They were part of the same party because they were part of the same coalition and who ends up in what coalition is more or less an emergent process and not the result of some semi-coherent rule.

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I agree. Living in a two-party system we think there's some natural coherence to having two sides, but if you've lived long enough you can remember when the Republicans were for free trade and the Democrats for free speech. Heck, read Plunkitt of Tammany Hall's memoirs and you can read about 'Jefferson-Jackson dinners' (they hate those guys now!). With a first-past-the-post system two parties are optimal, so it's just a matter of whatever conglomeration happens to stick.

I have to say most of the anti-Zionists are in the Democrats, but the real antisemites are in the Republicans. (That is not the same as saying all Democrats are anti-Zionists or all Republicans are antisemites...I do not believe that at all.)

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What antisemites are republicans? The only one I can think of is Marjorie Taylor Greene, although I'm not sure she is antisemitic as much as she is just stupid, and she's not taken very seriously. I don't doubt others exist, but they generally aren't with the republicans because republicans generally (and rightfully) hammer other republicans that make antisemitic statements. Leftists give each other much more leeway and excuses and therefore antisemites generally (and rightfully) deduce that the democratic party is for them if they have strong antisemitic feelings.

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MTG I actually don't think is antisemitic; she slaps around a lot of conspiracy theories, some of which happen to hit typical targets like the Rothschilds just by historical accumulation. And, I mean, George Soros (and now his son) *does* give millions of dollars to left-wing causes; it's not antisemitic to criticize him IMHO.

I'm thinking more of the Pearl Davis, Nick Fuentes, Pedro Gonzalez types. Look at all the crap Ben Shapiro was always catching...I'm not talking about criticism of his overfondness for Israel, I'm talking pictures of him photoshopped into death camps and such. The Democrats will get very angry if you clearly display actual racial prejudice against people of Jewish ancestry, but are generally fine with criticizing the nation of Israel. Of course you can use one as a cover for the other.

I'm genuinely not sure what side a Jew who considers Zionism important should take--weigh your choices and pick what you think is the best option, I guess, like lots of other Americans.

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The only one of those I have a vague recognition of is Nick Fuentes and I only know of him because somebody suckered Trump into meeting him. That's a pretty stark contrast from the most prominent antisemites on the left, who only give a passing nod to antizionism when exhibiting their antisemitism. It's not like Al Sharpton or Omar are dispassionately looking at all of the US's allies and determining that Israel is uniquely bad (or even close to as bad as the worst of the US's allies).

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Black people are given passes for being racist against Jews and Asians for entirely cynical and selfish reasons, to the point where it's a relatively mainstream lefty position to deny that black people can even be racist at all. They despise them for their disproportionate success and use every low measure available to bully Jews and Asians. Which is generally easy, as they have a number advantage, a size advantage, and no qualms about attacking the elderly for the sake of this demented grievance.

It's shameful, and the shame's on everyone who stood by and let it get this bad because they were more concerned about appearing racist for calling out the bad behavior of another race than in stopping a pogromesque, racist campaign of violence and terror.

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