I also find people forget the reasons behind their old positions. I’ve encountered many cases of people who said that used to be a libertarian and they give arguments against libertarianism that their former self would not have accepted as good arguments, i.e. people strawman their past selves.
Most people never consider ideas. They believe the same things that other people they know and like believe. Think of it as the ad hominem fallacy writ large.
In my view a better way to describe how most humans think: what seems to them to be true, IS NECESSARILY true.
Your theory is a member of a set of phenomena that contributes to this end state. Other members are culture (this is how the media teaches us to think), and suspiciously bad state designed educational curriculum (an absence of philosophy in K to 12).
The years teach much which the days never know -- Emerson
You’ll probably never find a purer thinking machine than a bright, adolescent boy. Some never grow out of their early certainties, but most will. How? Life happens. Puerile, air-tight consistency runs aground on the hot mess of imperfect souls living in a half-crazed world. Ideals and obligations clash, tastes change, and life throws up constant surprises, at least for those who continued growing into their twenties and beyond.
Why do we turn our backs on ideas we once held dear? Because sometimes they just look like shit after a while.
Mark S. Miller (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_S._Miller), who is one of the smartest people on the planet, once told me about his conversion from Hassidic Jew to secularism. He was raised as a devout Jew and practiced the religion in full sincerity - complete with kippah, talus, tefiillin, etc., every day. One day, a college colleague (or Professor, I don't remember) asked him why he believed.
He said he thought about it for a minute, and realized he'd never questioned it before - he'd simply been raised that way and went along, believing it was all true. And then he put all that stuff away and decided he didn't believe in it anymore, because he had no reason to.
"My point, rather, is that human irrationality is even more prevalent than it seems. Most people are too irrational to change their minds on anything important. But most people who change their minds on important issues nevertheless do so irrationally."
What is "irrationality"? Does it really mean anything more than a process or outcome of reasoning (i.e., thinking) of which the accuser somehow disapproves? I only ask because I want to know.
I woke up in 2020 and switched sides. The reasons included watching the left advocate for the 2020 riots and deny anthing bad was happening, watching Trump news conferences and realizing that the media was uninterested in issues, such as the Abraham Peace Accords, and only wanted to play "gotcha", then lie about what I just saw with my own eyes, scientists calling the Lab Leak hypothesis a right wing conspiracy theory, noticing that every other week the left changed their minds about what was racist and what was not, and realizing that generally, everything the media said was a lie. Realizing that Trump was a legit peacemaker. Going back and looking at uncut video and realizing the media was lying about everything they said Trump did.
What really prompted this was that covid and the riots put me in danger, so I had to really pay attention for the first time in my life.
It is plausibly possible to change the game though....one could simply launch a competitor game, one that has been much better designed. Out with the old, in with the new!
What’s the alternative here? I’d say it’s rational to change your belief after discovering a non obvious problem with your previous position and testing it a bit. Do I need to do a research project to make changing my mind rational? It seems the rational thing to do is to change your mind but try to maintain some probability of being wrong. Continue to listen to other opinions on the matter, etc. The burden of having to research each opinion in depth would seem impractical and to me somewhat irrational. Maybe AI can solve this problem for us.
I also find people forget the reasons behind their old positions. I’ve encountered many cases of people who said that used to be a libertarian and they give arguments against libertarianism that their former self would not have accepted as good arguments, i.e. people strawman their past selves.
Particularly well said.
Most people never consider ideas. They believe the same things that other people they know and like believe. Think of it as the ad hominem fallacy writ large.
In my view a better way to describe how most humans think: what seems to them to be true, IS NECESSARILY true.
Your theory is a member of a set of phenomena that contributes to this end state. Other members are culture (this is how the media teaches us to think), and suspiciously bad state designed educational curriculum (an absence of philosophy in K to 12).
The years teach much which the days never know -- Emerson
You’ll probably never find a purer thinking machine than a bright, adolescent boy. Some never grow out of their early certainties, but most will. How? Life happens. Puerile, air-tight consistency runs aground on the hot mess of imperfect souls living in a half-crazed world. Ideals and obligations clash, tastes change, and life throws up constant surprises, at least for those who continued growing into their twenties and beyond.
Why do we turn our backs on ideas we once held dear? Because sometimes they just look like shit after a while.
As a fan of Just So stories, this was great! ;)
Mark S. Miller (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_S._Miller), who is one of the smartest people on the planet, once told me about his conversion from Hassidic Jew to secularism. He was raised as a devout Jew and practiced the religion in full sincerity - complete with kippah, talus, tefiillin, etc., every day. One day, a college colleague (or Professor, I don't remember) asked him why he believed.
He said he thought about it for a minute, and realized he'd never questioned it before - he'd simply been raised that way and went along, believing it was all true. And then he put all that stuff away and decided he didn't believe in it anymore, because he had no reason to.
How has his results been?
"My point, rather, is that human irrationality is even more prevalent than it seems. Most people are too irrational to change their minds on anything important. But most people who change their minds on important issues nevertheless do so irrationally."
What is "irrationality"? Does it really mean anything more than a process or outcome of reasoning (i.e., thinking) of which the accuser somehow disapproves? I only ask because I want to know.
https://jclester.substack.com/p/adversus-adversus-homo-economicus
https://www.amazon.com/Myth-Closed-Mind-Understanding-Rational/dp/0812696859
I woke up in 2020 and switched sides. The reasons included watching the left advocate for the 2020 riots and deny anthing bad was happening, watching Trump news conferences and realizing that the media was uninterested in issues, such as the Abraham Peace Accords, and only wanted to play "gotcha", then lie about what I just saw with my own eyes, scientists calling the Lab Leak hypothesis a right wing conspiracy theory, noticing that every other week the left changed their minds about what was racist and what was not, and realizing that generally, everything the media said was a lie. Realizing that Trump was a legit peacemaker. Going back and looking at uncut video and realizing the media was lying about everything they said Trump did.
What really prompted this was that covid and the riots put me in danger, so I had to really pay attention for the first time in my life.
You can't win. You can't break even. You can't even quit the game.
It is plausibly possible to change the game though....one could simply launch a competitor game, one that has been much better designed. Out with the old, in with the new!
What’s the alternative here? I’d say it’s rational to change your belief after discovering a non obvious problem with your previous position and testing it a bit. Do I need to do a research project to make changing my mind rational? It seems the rational thing to do is to change your mind but try to maintain some probability of being wrong. Continue to listen to other opinions on the matter, etc. The burden of having to research each opinion in depth would seem impractical and to me somewhat irrational. Maybe AI can solve this problem for us.
Fundamentalist Taoism is one alternative!
Is "The Myth of the Rational Apostate" coming? ... or the more ambitious (and controversial) "The Myth of the Rational Thinker"
I would go, once and for all, for the long time deserved "The Myth of the Rational Animal"